Definition of Opinion:  A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

Please be respectful to others with differing opinions. 

Dennis Moran

May you all have a MERRY CHRISTMAS and remember my folks are throwing parties in the clouds.

Mom and Dad: Anna  and Ralph cordially invite your passed relatives to a Merry Christmas where the clouds are made with beer suds and rain is now ice.  Some relatives may have gone elsewhere but at this time of year we welcome them back..tho they may not see god our love for them is all encompassing.

Its a time when food and drinks are all coming and flowing...no need to worry about what one may wear because fashion just insn't as important as down here.

What a time all will have seeing back to before and then before more.  And if anyone recalls where they left the babe ruth card I will share it with the bank deposit box.   Its going to be a great time; hey we even invite the angels...if you see my guardian angel tell him thanks for so many times of pulling my butt out of the many stupid things I have done.

Yes, the NUNS are invited and please lets play rocks, paper and sizzors carefully.  To my cousins, a few of which passed when they were kids..go ahead and run with the sizzors and while your up please pet my dogs, Kelly, Mitzey, Jaysee, Tiffy. they loved having fun and now they are free from hurt. loved you all so very much.

As an only child i somehow wish their was a little sister or brother up their that just didn't make it down to me I sure loved dreaming about what that would of been like.

Thanks all who give us their thoughts;  a thought is so much and they are never stupid or wrong.

To my best friends Wayne Bandara and Rick Hortsmeyer thanks so much for being my friends..I keep a banana popsicle in the freezer to celebrate knowing you..

Let the party begin...as if it too ony me to say it.  All are welcome....Enjoy

HAVE A HAPPY AND MERRY CHRISTMAS and hugs to all.

Dennis.

Frank Wiley

Richard--you didn't respond to my Post 11911.  Where was I wrong?

Jim Coats

I am so tired of this back and forth.  Look, if the democrats/liberals on this site are satisfied with the open border and the damage it has caused our country, just say so.  Biden has done less than nothing about it and now some democrats are finally admitting it.  If the left on this Site thinks they have a solution beyond the generic SECURE THE BORDER, then they are proclaiming their omniscience and...whether guided by God, or in the case of the athiests on this site....some other higher power.....then they are clearly displaying for us their narcissistic self-importance making them, in their own minds, well above us common beings.

I am sick of the left taking over the Forum with their blathering never-ending proclamations that can be measured only in feet, because I'll never count the words.  I wish they would STOP quoting people which is only meant to show "us" how much smarter they are.  I am NOT impressed, they are NOT professors and they are NOT smarter than any of us.

BTW dushong , I think the post Mike Wetzel gave us that was purported to be written by a journalist named Greigo, I think, probably came to me from another source and I passed it on to my mailing list which included Mike.  I did NOT investigate every word in the article because it fit with my narrative and to go along with my ongoing question "Who's The Liar?", I felt it sounded reasonable enough so it was good enough for me.  At some point, one must draw a line in the sand and step on one side or the other.  So, for me I say, lay off Mike you sanctimonious jerk and if you want to come after someone, come after me and I will ignore you like I do a fly.  You are NWMFT!

SECURE THE BORDER!!  ENFORCE THE LAW!!  AMERICA FIRST!!

PARENTS RIGHTS!!  FOLLOW THE MONEY!!

P.S.  Re:  Mike Kelly's #11922....there you go.  What he said!!!  Well stated!

Greg Watkins

Earl Harris III

Michael Wetzel,

I accept the fact that all of us are capable of making mistakes. I’ve made more than a few in my life including many that I have come to regret. 

Thanks for admitting that your “copy and paste” post #11918 for what it was, a fictitious accounting of “statistics” misattributed to Tina Griego of the Denver Post. Her rebuttal to her highjacked original post, published in 2010, appears  below under the title, “Griego: One thing’s true: People believe what they want”

https://www.denverpost.com/2010/06/07/griego-one-things-true-people-believe-what-they-want/

It’s worth reading in its entirety. I trust that you (and others) will take the time to read or listen to the audio version, also provided.

In my last post, #11916 I offered the following hope: “If only one Holiday wish could be granted me regarding postings on this message forum, it would be that people be more widely read seekers of fact-based truth, and to the degree humanly possible, that views, beliefs, opinions and advice be given with the greatest degree of humility and civility we can muster.”

I will continue to push the belief that we can do a better job in communicating with fellow former classmates.

Finally, I want to say that I totally agree with Richard Deshong’s concluding paragraph in post #11919 where he offers his opinion on the complex and frustrating issue of dealing effectively with the our nation’s immigration policy. 

I suspect none of us have the answers that will solve the immigration crises we face, but we can all become better informed of past and present efforts to address some of the issues we face. Here’s just one, a start, perhaps:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65574725

Bill Kaehler

Deshong- re your post 11913.  I did not accuse you of using those familiar personal labels with a conservative thinking mindset.  A reading of my post would confirm that.  What I actually said was “I wonder if you have ever labeled anybody with one or more of those labels”.

I still do.

Earl Harris III

Jim, 

I’m not sure whether you want me to address you in the first or third person singular. If you’re not reading my posts, then I would prefer the latter in addressing things you have to say on this message forum. On the other hand , if you would like for me to respond to you personally because you are, in fact, reading my posts,(and, I think you are…), then say so. I would be happy to respond to you in the first person as I am doing here.

In your most recent post, #11931, I can safely deduce that you were offended by the length of my message, especially my use of quotes when you chose to write the following: “ I am sick of the left, taking over the Forum with their blathering never-ending proclamations that can be measured only in feet because I never count the words. I wish they would STOP quoting people which is only meant to show “us” how much smarter they are. I am NOT impressed. They are NOT professors and they are NOT smarter than any of us.” 

You may be pleased to learn that I have deleted all of my quotes from my post, #11916. You might want to go back and read all of it, again. It’s much shorter now and devoid of those condescending quotes that you found objectionable. I actually think it’s better, now. Thanks. By the way, Jim, I have always counted you among the more intelligent participants on this forum. It's just that I disagree with many of your positions and will reserve the right to object whenever I feel the need to do so.

I do want to challenge a number of your assertions.

First, the left has not taken over Camelback's Message Forum.  If anything, I believe the opposite is true. It’s only recently that a small minority of lefties have returned to the site to challenge some of the ideas being espoused here by those on the right, some quite nastily stated, I might add. Today, there seems to be more of a balance in terms of information and opinions shared that was sorely missing in the past.

I also would like to challenge your assertion that my posts are long, ones that can be “measured only in feet”. While I agree that the last one was too long and could have benefited from being divided into two parts, or separate posts, if we were to add up all of the verbiage you have offered over the years, including multiple daily posts, I think you would be the hands-down winner when it comes to number of words posted. Yes, Jim, you win!

In a not too distant post you indicated that you no longer read anything that I write. You included my name along with a couple others whom I consider to be good company. In addition, you have made it clear that I’m “NWMFT (not worth my f****** time)”. I must admit that every time I see this acronym, I cringe. Perhaps you could compare it to the quotes I deleted from #11916. Not only does it seem condescending, but it reveals more than I would hope to see from you, a declaration on your part to either remain ignorant, and/or dismissive of opinions that do not comport with your own. 

Lastly, to call Richard Deshong a “ sanctimonious jerk” for his reaction to Mike’s post, is not appropriate, Jim. We are all grown men. Richard‘s frustration with Mike’s posting, shared carelessly by you with Mike, should not have been posted and, consequently, gone unchecked. Strong words were used by Richard, but if we are to confront ignorance, misinformation and lies on this discussion forum, they were an appropriate use of words given the circumstance.

Richard Deshong

This post is intended for Jim Coats, or whomever is using Chatbot to write posts using his name. Since Jim doesn't read my posts I can only assume he uses a ghost reader to identify what I wrote and compose a response.

But really Jim, what do you think of me? Get it out of your system and don't hold anything back. You know, I look forward to your feedback more than anyone's. Every time I read your remarks I imagine you looking at your device of choice and steam literally coming out your ears. As I have said in the past, I enjoy researching issues and sharing facts and even my opinions. But knowing how my doing so gets under your skin just makes it all the more fun.

Keep up the good work.

Michael Kelly

Richard DeShong  Glad to hear your rich. Like Ranchers do, I wont ask you how many cattle you have, and how many acres you are Tending to, bad manners and it is the same to brag such. Now, you gave me and easy challenge. Here's my Answer. FINISH TRUMP;S FENCE. REASON I CALL IT TRUMP'S FENCE IS BECAUSE BIDEN ADMITTED IT WORKED BY SAYING HE WAS COMMENCING BUILDING IT A COUPLA MONTHS AGO. I DONT SEE HOW MANY INCHES HE'S GOT DONE, JUST LIKE THE F-16S HE PROMISED THE UKRAINIANS BACK IN MARCH 2022. HE'S A BIG TALKER BUT HE'S YOUR BOY YOU GOT MONEY SEND HIM A FEW HUNDRED THOUSAND BUCKS AND I'M SURE YOU WILL GET RESULTS, MAYBE A PICTURE WEARING A BASEBALL CAP WITH A BIG RED STAR IN THE MIDDLE

Now as to Ms. Griego's retraction of the alleged Statement she published. I read her denial also, entitled Guess we All Believe what we Wanna Believe or some such. Although she denies origination and says "he Done It" I found it rather strange she did not correct any of the figures that are listed in Mr. Wetzel's mislabelled statement atrtributed to her. Actually the figures seem pretty accurate, but then I am Biassed against Illegal Immigrants coming here without any supervision, and without agreeing to pay back the considerable burden they immediately PUT ON MY WALLET AND IT REALLY PISSES ME OFF BECAUSE UNLIKE BIDEN, I WORK FOR MY DAMNED MONEY AND WHAT THEY TAKE IN THE FORM OF TAXES BEING  OUTRAGEOUS, IS EVEN MORE OFFENSIVE BECAUSE THEY USE IT TO FUND FUTURE VOTERS FOR THE DEMOCRAT PARTY. 

FINALLY RICHARD, SINCE YOU DISLIKE OTHER PEOPLE BEING RICH ASIDE FROM YOU, OF COURSE, THEN MAYBE YOU WOULD AGREE THAT THE BEST TAX SYSTEM ASIDE FROM NONE AT ALL, WOULD BE A SALES TAX AT THE CASH REGISTER, ONE TIME ONLY, OF TEN PERCENT OF ANY SALES. STATES CAN HAVE THEIR OWN BUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO LEARN TO BUDGET ITSELF, AND A TEN PERCENT TAX AT THE CASH REGISTER WOULD BE "TRUE EQUITY" WOULDN'T IT. 

Michael Kelly

MORAN  I REALLY ENJOY WHAT YOU WRITE. STRAIGHT FROM THE HEART. YOU SAY YOU LIKE THE CONSITUTION AND THEN SAY YOU WANT IT TO BE FLEXIBLE. THEN, AND THIS REALLY TICKLES ME, YOU WRITE HOW IT AFFECTS THE COUNTRY AND MY FRIEND, YOU THINK LIKE A CONSERVATIVE. DON'T GET UPSET, YOU ARE A GENUINE "MEERIKAN" AND KEEP ON  KEEPIN ON. ENJOY IT MORAN!

Jim Coats

Cruising East on Hwy 51 at about 50th St. today we saw a huge puff of white "dust" in front of us.  I figured it was some dry sheetrock taping material that fell off a truck.  It turns out it was an EV Chevy Volt and the driver did a right oblique to the shoulder and bailed out of his car.  He didn't seem to be hurt, but the car had white smoke pouring out of what used to be called a "hood" on his car.

I'm pointing this out because I can't recall the last time I saw a fossil fuel vehicle on fire.  Of course, I haven't run the statistics for the past 35 years.  Anyone out there want to do that for us?

Richard Deshong

Jim, I just have two words for you - Ford Pinto.

Richard Deshong

Mike, according to U.S. Census data, as of 2020 the break point for determining the top 20% of U.S. household wealth was right at $500,000. At the ripe old age of 76, and in today's real estate market, many of us have at least one home whose equity might approach that threshold. Add in years of working and building a next egg in 401ks, iras, and other tax deferred investments and it really shouldn't surprise anyone that maybe a highly educated, hard working group of people like those who graduated from Camelback High in 1965 just might fall into that top 20%. I know I couldn't do hardly any of the things many of our fellow alumni do (travel, buying high end cars, etc.) If I had to rely only on social security.

As for your comment on the border fence, don't think I'm going to let you of that easy. Go back and re-read my challenge. If your response is anything like what you would use in a court of law, then maybe it explains why you might not have made it into the top 20%.

Dennis Moran

Mike, thanks for the kind thoughts... I do lean conservative but every once in a while i see I  an injustice that. needs to corrected.    As mild mannered shoe shine boy I am here to make sure the city is safe,  The reason I get gross and disgusting is from a history of Progressives saying one thing and doing in everyone.  I forgot how many things I have been called because I didn't want to play with the other raindeer..as our leader ....we are a band of independents...said kiss my sweet...It looks like the queen of liberals is off (but returning soon-miss you Kate and I know many of the boys will feel free and able to wear their own jock strap.  Normally I would try to be nice but im sure the queen of cheese would be out with her flying monkeys...none of you liberals will need to worry about it your so much smarter and you know your place on the SS Liberalitania..most of the conservatives won't insult you but i gladly will..  Do you hear that? yep i shot across the bow, relax scabies

REMEMBER

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN... share your thoughts please no quotes that means you have no thoughts of your own and have to have someone think for you.  I have alot of faith that you have thoughts about what you would like to see and sometimes I think you hit a homerun.

Just like dracula, I think we need some young blood running our country,,,If I wanted old id do it myself.

Opps can you hear it the guards are marching out of the castle and singing

Dennis

Well off to wash my hands. Especailly after sharing my views on flying monkeys.  all of which I enjoyed in the movie...Ms Hamilton was exceptional...And Toto what a cute dog.

Michael Wetzel

First,

I also read Ms.Griego's retraction, or what passed for one. Also, like Mr Kelly, I found it odd, she did not dispute any of the statistics shown. For myself, I tend to believe they were extremely accurate, or very close to accurate. As I do have a LIFE, I do not intend to research each and every one of them for their accuracy. They seemed completely plausible as written..........

Second,

In Post # 11903, if the last sentence included all of us Conservatives, then I wish the same back at her !...........

Third,

For those of you, ( Mr. Lorts ? ) who have rushed to purchase an electric vehicle, I would not under any circumstances park them in your garages. I'm sure everyone has read of their tendency to catch fire, just from looking at them. Which is happening at a more alarming rate. As they are almost impossible to extinguish. I have conversed with several of my compadres on the F.D., who will attest to this...Good luck..................

Fourth, 

Dennis, you are Great my man............

Jim, it was my fault for not digging a little deeper. But I do agree with you concerning that particular jerk !...........

Mike Lorts

Jim,

I've seen at least five(5) car fires on I-17 over the last ten years. Keep searching for reasons to stop EV cars (and trucks). 

Jim Coats

Mike Wetzel and other conservatives.....if "IT" fits your narrative (what you believe to be relevant and true), then share it.  I shared the email with you and others that has the liberals hair on fire and I didn't waste time vetting any of it because it seemed reasonable to me. 

The border and therefore America are in deep s**t and I am fearful that we may not be able to salvage the situation.  Because I say SECURE THE BORDER without 5,000 words to flesh it out, is because I don't set myself up as an expert on securing the border.  I just want it done by the a**holes we elected to protect us.  They're supposed to know how to get it done!

You know.....here's an idea!  Why don't we ask the experts (Border Patrol, Customs and Border Protection and Law Enforcement officials) who see and KNOW what is happening.  I would imagine they have a few good ideas*.  (*Sarcasm for those who are following along.)

The "LEFT" as is proudly represented on this Site want to research and talk things to death.  No action....just dithering and pompous blathering.  Some call it "speechifying."  I have no use for people like that.  NWMFT!!

SECURE THE FRIGGIN' BORDER!!  ENFORCE THE LAW!!  AMERICA FIRST!!

PARENTS RIGHTS!!  FOLLOW THE MONEY.....OH, YEAH....FOLLOW THE MONEY!!

Richard Deshong

Jim, the article you didn't have time or inclination to vet was published in 2007. If the numbers used were anywhere accurate, which if you read more about them you would know they weren't, then why didn't the issue get resolved in the Bush administration when both houses of Congress were on his side? 

it seems to me you only want to cast dispersion in one direction when immigration is an issue that has confounded America for centuries. Every few decades Sunday morning quarterbacks like yourself decide one group or another should not be allowed to set foot on American soil, unless of course we need them to do the back breaking jobs Americans find so undesirable like building a railroad or picking our crops. Yet somehow many do make it and some even volunteer to put their life on the line protecting America. 

The United States ranks 55th in infant mortality. We lose 60 - 70,000 people to influenza each year and equal numbers too Covid - 19 and RSV. Drug over doses claim another 100,000 or so Americans per year and that doesn't include the deaths from all the corn syrup, salt and fats American food manufacturers and fast food restraints poison us with that causes diabetes and early heart failure. Top it all off with America experiencing its lowest birth rate ever recorded and the number of us soon to be dead baby boomers, and it doesn't paint a pretty picture for the future. By the time your grandkids reach retirement there won't be enough tax payers to support them. 

So maybe what we need is people who aren't as opposed to vetting things as you are to do a better and faster job of vetting people who want to seek asylum in America.and use the skills they bring with them to start small business and do the dirty work you wouldn't want your grandkids to have to do. Perhaps we could start by taking all the people it would take to build.your majical wall and retrain them to help with the vetting.

GYHOOYA

Richard Deshong

How's that follow the money thing working out for Clarence Thomas?

Mike Lorts

It has been pointed out to me that I along with all the other progressives in this forum have TDS. I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of you for bestowing such an honor. It's been said that you will be judged by the company you keep. It is quite a privilege to be grouped together with the likes of George Will, Mitt Romney, almost every former Secretary of State, Bill Barr, Liz Cheney, John Kelly, the list goes on and on. I know I'm forgetting many names.

Richard Deshong

Mike L, to quote Sheldon Cooper - Bazinga!!!!!

That ones for you Jim!

Earl Harris III

Mike Lorts,

You're in great company! Here is a comprehensive list of prominent Republicans opposing Donald Trump in 2024. The list is quite long. There are some on this list I'd consider voting for in the future. Many would be great cabinet members in the next Democratic administration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_who_oppose_the_Donald_Trump_2024_presidential_campaign

Richard Deshong

Mike L.  According to analysis performed using data from the National Fire Protection Association, Reuters, and all reporting US fire departments, there are on average 284,130 internal combustion car fires every year, and that's just in America. I guess they just don't happen on U.S. 51 in Phoenix. 

Being a retired fireman, I'm surprised Mike W didn't let Jim know, seeing as they share so much information off tbe forum.

Michael Kelly

For your information Richard D., the appointment of a Supreme Court Justice for the United States Supreme Court is a Lifetime appointment. Thus the stay of Ruth Bader Ginsburg so Clarence Thomas will probably be there until he Retires. So Richard your welcome to "vet" that if you so desire. 

I get the impression from reading some of the missives made here, that some people just cannot find enough negative things to say about  America. It gives me the impression tha t they are happy in a morbid sense, that we seem to be going all to Hell in a Handbasket. but, I can't buy into that at all. Look around you. Do you see large numbers of people that look malnourished, toddlers with swollen stomachs from eating dirt for filler, just to  stop the hunger pangs. People with Goiters, Crooked Legs, stick like  limbs, eyes half closed from exhaustion. No, unless as is the case with our Homeless, Some have chosen to live in the streets who are addicted to drugs, or have mental disabilities. We have spent billions on them but nothing seems to improve. 

Im not saying were perfect, but the people flooding across the Southern Border are coming for a reason. No one seems to be crossing the River and heading South. is it the weather?  Now this is a first, but I will take the Liberty to provide you so inclined to use the open space below, to express every Negative Thing that you Can about Donald j. Trump. People obsessed with bad mouthing others are Mentally Ill, No doubt  about it. So as a kind of Active Therapy leave below your worst ten Bitches about Donald J. Trump. Really get it off your Chest. Ready Set Go (Write Below)

Michael Kelly

DERELICTION OF DUTY IS A PERSON'S PURPOSEFUL OR ACCIDENTAL FAILURE TO PERFORM AN OBLIGATION WITHOUT A VALID EXCUSE, ESPECIALLY AN OBLIGATION ATTACHED TO THEIR JOB.

THIS DEFINES AN IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE, A HIGH CRIME OR MISDEMEANOR.

DOES THIS SOUND LIKE JOE BIDEN'S FAILURE TO PERFORM HIS DUTY TO ENFORCE THE IMMIGRATION LAWS AT OUR SOUTHERN BORDER? WE SEE THE EVIDENCE EVERYDAY, AND IT IS UNDENIABLE. HOWEVER, I IMAGINE SOME ARE MORE CONCERNED WITH MAINTAINING POLITICAL POWER WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THEY WILL REFUSE TO RECOGNIZE THIS, UNTIL, AS MAY HAPPEN, SOME TERRORIST THAT HAS COME ACROSS THE BORDER WITHOUT ANY IMPEDANCE TO MAKE A DESTRUCTICE EXPLOSIVE DEVICE AND KILL A BUNCH OF US. TOO LATE THEN. AS RICHARD D. SO APTLY STATED WAKE UP