Definition of Opinion:  A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

Please be respectful to others with differing opinions. 

Jim Coats

Katie....I'm going to resist saying or asking any questions beyond what was obvious in what you just wrote. I really liked the words.

Hallelujah and pass the mustard!!  We have a base upon which to build, but I continue to admit I don't have all the answers and have to leave it up to our elected officials to figure out how to implement good, honorable solutions.  We shall see.

Mr. Kelly.  You make some very good points, but you are applying logic to the Palestine/Gaza/Hamas mess.  I THINK you're right.  Those who call themselves Palestinians (there is NO Palestine) most likely ALL hate Jews.  They were taught that from birth.  I don't see a peaceful solution.

P.S.  Mike Kelly.  First.  Holy crap!  Were you really that smart??  "A" Mr. Johnson was my teacher in Experimental Biology.  Wonder if it's the same guy?  That class was definitely an "experiment" for me.  I think I sat next to Marta Fingado.  Talk about being outgunned.  I think she actually brought her frog back to life....that's how smart she was!

Second.  You know, it's funny.  I NEVER  knew about any of my teachers military service until I read their obituaries.  Too bad.  Talk about the Greatest Generation.  I was taught by heroes and didn't know it.

If I had my life to live over, I would have tried harder in school.

Mary Powers (Evans)

Katie:  

Bill RIHS

Katie, surprised to learn your feelings on the issues. I felt you really did not see any of those as a problem. Thank you!

Frank Wiley

Mike Johnson was on FOX News Sunday w/ Shannon Bream.  He explained what their intentions were (their--included 9 Democrats) in the Bill they passed supporting Israel.  They want to start taking each spending proposal as "stand alone".  In other words, get rid of most, if not all of the "pork".  They also want to try to figure out how they are going to pay for stuff without raising the National Debt.  Both of these ideas I totally support!! 33 Trillion---$33,000,000,000,000 in debt is dangerous.  It's like having your Credit Card maxed out except for two things.  The Treasury can simply print more money.  And the Government, unlike us, just keeps borrowing.  In other words, because they are the Bank, they don't cut themselves off or rein themselves in.  A lot of that 33 Trillion is borrowed from China, who is not a friend.  The interest we pay on that debt is (I believe) 3 Trillion a year.  (Google--statists.com/public debt----it shows in January 2013 our Public Debt was 15 Billion a MONTH and in June '23 it's 33 Billion per MONTH.  Remember, the Cold War ended because the Soviet Union fell apart and we almost bankrupted Russia.  China would Love to do the same thing to us and unless the Republicans and Democrats continue to spend more than they bring in, China will do it.  

Jim Coats

Stop the invasion at the southern border....and then figure out a way to handle the millions who have come in ILLEGALLY.  

We are deluding ourselves if we think we personally have the answers/formula to implement results.  VOTE.  That's it.

SECURE THE BORDER!!  ENFORCE THE LAW!!

AMERICA FIRST!!  PARENTS RIGHTS!!  FOLLOW THE MONEY!!

Frank Wiley

Ballot Box stuffing has already started.  In Connecticut , a ballot box (under video surveillance) had 425 people drop off ballots, but the box had 1,200 ballots in it.  

Jim Coats

Frank.  You must be mistaken.  That NEVER happens.....unless they were 1,200 votes for "R's".  

FOLLOW THE MONEY!!  Money and power, baby.  That's what it's all about.

DeWitt Bacon

Jim, you are right. The border situation is a disaster and is killing our people. The only way to stop this deadly invasion is to have a President and a secretary of Homeland Security who truly WANTS  to stop it. As I have stated many times before, I think those in power now are making millions off of this.

Earl Harris III

Thanks to all this morning for your attempts to lower the heat in the kitchen. I'm not ready to say that we've turned the corner and can now join hands in joyful singing of Hallelujah, but it seems like we're making some incremental progress. Keep it up!

A special note to Frank: 

You and I exchanged thoughts and opinions about recent Palestinian protestor chants beginning with your generalized post #11492. The controversy generated by the chanting of "Palestine must be free, from the river to the sea! ",  has been heard round the world. It has led to the firing or resignation of government officials, the term banned from usage by various organizations, governmental or otherwise, and arrests have been made where it has been deemed to be a call to violence.

To be clear, I agree with you 100% when it is used in the context of advocating/promoting genocide. However, I think we need to be cognizant of how that chant came into being and  has been used historically by both Palestinians and Jews to express the desire to be free people from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. The danger of using it today, of course, is that it can easily fan the flames of distrust and hate. Viewing it from that perspective, it's best that it not be used and to admonish those who do so, IMHO.

I have long respected your views on helping others. You're not just a man of words, you've been involved in service organizations promoting understanding and peace go many years. Thank you.

I have been reading a bit more about Rotary. Here is the statement put out by your organization on October 13, 2023 regarding the conflict in Gaza and Israel.

"Recognizing there has been protracted suffering in the long history of conflict between Israel and Palestinians in Gaza, Rotary International urges all parties to seek avenues to peace.

At the same time, we unequivocally condemn the horrific attack by Hamas on Israeli civilians and are appalled at the number of people who have been injured, killed, and kidnapped.

As the war between Israel and Hamas intensifies, we remain deeply concerned about the potential for further escalation as well as the loss of life and the humanitarian crisis that is occurring in Gaza. We denounce the violence against innocent civilians and support upholding international humanitarian law.

Peacebuilding is both a cornerstone of Rotary’s mission and one of our areas of focus. At our core, Rotary is a common ground for people to come together – across nationalities and religions, cultures and histories – and connect around their shared belief in a better tomorrow. That connection is what humanizes us in times of conflict and builds a foundation for lasting peace.

Rotary remains committed to working with our members, partners, and communities to find long-term, sustainable solutions that support peace and development in the region and elsewhere."

I am in agreement with this statement. I hope that everyone on this Message Forum can continue to seek knowledge concerning the current situation, including its attendant history. It's a very long and complicated history with unbearable suffering that has been visited on both sides. 

War is Hell and many people will die before this Hamas-Israeli War comes to an end. Unfortunately, thousands of innocent men, women and children on both sides will die. I have no doubt that you'll be doing your best, Frank, to speak out against hatred and injustice. I will be joining you even as I acknowledge some of our differences in our respective political and ideological views. I know many others on this site will, as well.

Jim Coats

DeWitt.  Re: #11524.  You're not saying FOLLOW THE MONEY, are you?  For the record, I think...surmise...postulate that you are correct, Sir.

DeWitt Bacon

Katie, I'm glad that you agree that we can disagree and do it in an agreeable way. I wish certain others on this forum could do the same. Many of us disagree with you, but we don't need to keep throwing firey darts. As for me, I have no more firey darts to throw. As I stated, when I came back to the forum, I would be a more kind and gentler member. I hope you have seen that. I agree that it would be better for our country if Republicans and Democrats could work together for the good of our country. But I fear those days are over. Years ago, I felt that both Democrats and Republicans cared the same about keeping our country safe and free in a constitutional republic. Still, they had different ideas on how to accomplish that goal. Today, they are so divided it is hard to tell what they stand for. I have posted before about how I am becoming disillusioned with the direction the Republican party is going. Please make no mistake; I am still a strong conservative. But as even some Democrats have stated about their party, I feel my party is moving away from me. 

To the Republican-led House, I say, "SH*T OR GET OFF THE POT."

Yes, I think the border wall will go a long way in stopping illegal crossings. Is it a perfect deterrent? No. But by 2021, it was showing its worth. And as technology advances, it can be added to the wall. Yes, we need to keep a close eye on our northern border as well—enemies of our country are attacking from both sides. 

I will be keeping a close eye on the 2024 elections. You know I am a supporter of Trump. I wouldn't say I like some of the things he says or how he says them, but I believe he is the only one who can lead us out of the disaster our country is headed for. None of the other Republican candidates fit the bill for me. That being said, who will you support if you have made a choice? What do you think of RFK Jr.? He seems to be the most centrist of all the Democrats, even though he has been forced into running as an independent. Finally, if Donald Trump is not on the Republican ticket in 2024, I may consider switching to independent and voting for RFK Jr. I'll have to wait until then to decide.

I'm glad that we can agree to disagree in a more friendly way, no matter the topic.

I hope you had a good day on the golf course. I wonder how much meanness it takes to hit a poor, defenseless little ball with a club around for half a day. lol. I used to play golf. Not that good, but improving with some lessons, I could hit a straight long ball, but when it came to the green, I was like a go-cart engine, PUTT PUTT PUTT PUTT.  I once came close to a hole-in-one on a par 3 hole. I couldn't even get it in for a birdie. I had to settle for par. The last time I tried to swing a club in my backyard, my body screamed out, "DON'T DO THAT!"

DeWitt Bacon

Jim, as Biden would say, "Where's the money?"

We know where the money is. Although the house seems too slow on digging it out, they are FOLLOWING THE MONEY.

Michael Kelly

The General Premise/Rule/Law to solve any problem is. 1. Admit the problem exists. 2. Commit to solving the problem quickly. 3. If the problem was already solved, admit it was, instead of trying to "Find Your Own Way". 4. Stick with the Solution to the Problem. 

About the Border, See the Paragraph above. My Take! We're screwed. We would rather condemn Trump for making a Wall. What the Hell is so "Insipiently Cruel about a Wall" ? Check some Sattelite Photos, what Wall is visible from Outer Space. The Great Wall of China. Are any of you so excited about the Cruelty of the Great Wall of China. I insist that Chine be made to tear down its Wall before we tear down a Foot of Ours. WITH THE AMOUT OF PURE BS THAT KATIE AND OTHER LIBERALS SPEW ABOUT THE WALL WE WILL NEVER STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. WE DON'T HAVE THE WILL TO DO SO. LOOK IN THE MIRROR, YOU ARE A MEMBER OF 300 MILLION OF A CONQUERED PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU LACK THE WILL TO STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION WITH THE SOLUTION THAT WORKS. FIGURE THIS ALSO INTO YOUR EQUATION, WHEN YOU ALLEGEDLY CARE ABOUT THE WELFARE OF ILLEGAL ENTRANTS INTO YOUR COUNTRY MORE THAN YOU DO ABOUT THE WELFARE OF YOUR OWN CITIZENS, YOU ARE ENSLAVED AND DON'T EVEN KNOW IT YET.

WE HAVE FENTANOL, COURTESY OF THE  OPEN BORDER, WE HAVE CHILD TRAFFICKING COURTESY OF THE OPEN BORDER, WE HAVE ILLEGAL ENTRANTS WHO ARE VIOLENT FELONS THAT COMMIT MASS MURDERS COURTESY OF THE OPEN BORDER, WE HAVE SEX SLAVERY COURTESY OF THE OPEN BORDER, WE HAVE A 33 TRILLION DOLLAR BUDGET COURTESY OF THE OPEN BORDER, AND THE LIST GOES ON. AND YOU 'DONT WANT A WALL BECAUSE IS OFFENDS YOUR SENSIBILITIES" BET YOU RIGHT NOW ISRAEL WISHES IT HAD A MUCH BETTER WALL. 

GTYHOOYA, MILITARY FOR THE ADMONITION "WAKE UP" 

Frank Wiley

Biden keeps saying, "The bottom up and the middle out".  The problem is the prices are going up for the bottom, the middle, and the wealthy.  The big problem is that the wealthy can handle it.  So Joe's policies have helped the wealthy the most.  When the Fed keeps talking about 3% inflation and trying to get to two %,  that is added to the June of '22--9% inflation.  That 9% is still in your prices.  We just have another 3% added to it.  In other words, what do we buy that was the same lower price in June of '22?  To use the words of a Democrat--"It's the Economy Stupid!!"  A good video synopsis of the Jewish/Arab conflict--<VID-20231016-WA0000.MP4>

Bill RIHS

Katie, where can I find the Trump "outline", if elected? I saw a democrate version, scare tactic.

Earl Harris III

Michael,

Quite an ugly accusation you felt compelled to level at Katie and other liberals on this site. I'm going to post what you said as it was typed in ALL CAPS by you in the event others may have skipped over this nasty tidbit "

"WITH ALL THE AMOUNT OF PURE BS THAT KATIE AND OTHER LIBERALS SPEW ABOUT THE WALL WE WILL NEVER STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. WE DON'T HAVE THE WILL TO DO SO. LOOK IN THE MIRROR, YOU ARE A MEMBER OF 300 MILLION OF A CONQUERED PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU LACK THE WILL TO STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION WITH A SOLUTION THAT WORKS, FIGURE THIS ALSO IN YOUR EQUATION, WHEN YOU ALLEGEDLY CARE ABOUT THE WELFARE OF ILLEGAL ENTRANCE INTO YOUR COUNTRY MORE THAN YOU DO ABOUT THE WELFARE OF YOUR OWN CITIZENS, YOU'RE ENSLAVED AND DON'T EVEN KNOW IT YET."

Michael, I'm not even going to begin to try to knock down the half dozen or more misrepresentations and untruths spoken by you. For the past several days some folks have tried to offer possible solutions, not only to address problems that our country faces, but to a particular problem of more immediate and personal concern.

Many of us would like to try to bring a degree of thoughtful, in-depth analysis to the problems this country faces. While I give you credit for your the first two part approach to your "Prime/Rule/Law to any problem", I lost you on points, two and three. And, then it got truly ugly after that when you felt the need to launch into a personal attack on those who would beg to differ.

And so, predictably, your response elicited a counter- response from from Katie, and now from me. Are we just simply left to lower our heads and tread slowly backwards from such pronouncements. I don't think so, Michael.

There's no need to assume the posture of a true autocrat. We don't need more authoritarian pronouncements that also, at the same time, are meant to excoriate others with whom we disagree. As I have said, and will continue to say, this Message Forum could benefit from more civility.

Here's a quote for you and any others who might be of the opinion that all the world has but one right answer to every problem, yours or theirs:

I’ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.”

-Maya Angelou

For some additional thoughts on the subject succinctly stated Maya Angelou above, you might be interested in checking out the following:

https://noteworthynonsense.com/blog/08/2020/Maya-Angelou-How-You-Made-Them-Feel

Earl Harris III

Yesterday, I had the distinct privilege of watching a YouTube video involving Scott Galloway and Fareed Zakaria  titled: "Conversation with Fareed Zakaria - The Conflict in Israel and the State of Foreign Affairs".

For those of you who are interested in more than just a surface understanding of what has happened historically and is transpiring today along with the global implications of the Hamas-Israeli War, I highly recommend taking the time to view it. It's 46+ minutes in length, but I can guarantee that the knowledge and understanding these two have of the situation is pretty impressive. It might form the foundation, along with other sources you might wish to share, for an interesting discussion on this Message Forum.

https://youtu.be/-h1XD7fQSfg?si=P3r71gKJHTQ0v4Em

Michael Kelly

Pretty much the response I thought i would get. But, the fact remains, what other method tried thus far is as good at curbing Illegal Immigration as the Wall. The reason you don't like it is because most recently Trump actually started building a Wall AND IT WORKED UNTIL BIDEN CAME ALONG AND OPENED UP THE BORDER AND GENERATED THE MESS WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH. Thanks for reading what wrote. It Got your Attention! The Fact remains Illegal Immigration has to stop, and always blaiming Republicans for the Border Being open is Nonsense. You know it, at least I hope you do.

Michael Kelly

Coats  I was wrong. I believe that Teacher's name was Fred Johnson. The PTA back then had burrs in their Sadde because he taught us about Communism in his Class. It was pretty harmless with as muchd information as I knew back then. I don't know how to post a YouTube Video on to here. Do you know how? If so,  let me know. I have tried other methods but somehow my Tech proficiency is lacking in this area. Thanks.

Jim Coats

Sorry to say this is getting to be NWMFT.  None of us have "the answer(s)".  All we have are opinions and Votes.

DeWitt Bacon

History is written so that we don't make the mistakes of the past. Too bad so few study it.

Patty Meyers (Anderson)

Jim and DeWitt, I totally agree with both of you.

Mike Lorts

I agree with Jim. Our vote is so important. Our viewpoints may or may not influence the other side. Unfortunately I'm afraid all of us are set in our positions. Much like the Simon and Garfunkel song "The Boxer", "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".

Earl Harris III

Good Golly, Miss Molly!

This may be the very first time that I've ever turned to the Message Forum to read comments from colleagues I often disagree with and come away thinking they're right. Wow!

I am totally in agreement with DeWitt's most recent post regarding the importance of studying history in order to avoid mistakes in the future.

I'm totally in agreement with what Jim had to say regarding his most recent post where he nails it IMHO with his statement that "none of us have 'the answer(s)'...all we have our opinions and Votes", although I must admit to having to search for the meaning of the acronym NWMFT on the Internet. Not able to match it with anything that made any sense whatsoever, I was left guessing. Correct me if I'm wrong, Jim, but I think it might mean "Not Worth My F****** Time?

And, finally, I found myself nodding in agreement with Michael Kelly on a couple of points in his most recent post #11538...his response to my response to his post #11529. Michael, you did get my attention, for sure. I read and take seriously all you have to offer. While it is true that I sometimes feel the need to challenge you regarding some of the content and/or style of many of your posts, I liked what you had to say in your last, specifically the part, "the fact remains illegal immigration has to stop"... And, I will admit that I believe there is a place for walls along the border including possible expansion of the wall. It needs to be a part of the long term solution. Finally, I agree with you (and many others) that the problem of illegal immigration at the border has reached an all-time high that is unacceptable!  People above our pay grade will need to solve this. It won't be us onthis Message Forum who will need to decide on a long-term solution.

It's interesting, but while pecking away at this keyboard, on my iPad, I glanced at my iPhone to see two new entries, one from Patty, one from Mike Lorts and Katie.

Good golly, Miss Molly, again! I agree with them also. Mike's comment comparing the lyrics from the Simon and Garfunkel song, "The Boxer", is not only a clever and apt comparison between the song and what's happening on this site now...it will likely continue ad infinitum, IMHO, unless we can agree to shift topics from political ones to less polarizing ones.

Given what has just been said, especially as it relates to seemingly futile efforts to change others' positions, can we agree to the benefits of the turning the heat down even a bit more? Maybe turning off the fire for awhile would be good. It's become quite hot in here. Aren't we all a bit "fried" as it is? Pun intended. 

Earl Harris III

Like Katie, I will be watching with interest to see how the governor races in Mississippi and Kentucky turn out. The abortion related issues on several ballots will also give us some clues as to how the voter preferences are trending. It will be the first time in a long time where we will get to see results where actual voters are voting in actual elections. Polls may tell us one thing, but elections, which have consequences, are more accurate, more telling and more binding.